Getting amazing reviews and it’s only been about a week since it’s been out in the wild!!!
Or,.. Bambu Labs X1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlM6bVegPG4
zxys001 The one thing that I do caution people about getting an “inexpensive” 3D printer is will the company still be standing 5 years from now. This may seem like a trivial thing but getting supplies for printing or replacement parts for machines when they break. Also, while single extrusion is the mainstay of a lot of these inexpensive machines there’s just so much of a compromise that has to be made when using DFAM for it vs a machine that has a true second nozzle with a dissolvable support material.
Hey Arthur, personally, the above Bambu Labs X1 has already proven itself as a reliable, inexpensive and hi quality printer… and recently the 3rd party market has answered to many of the wants/needs.
5yrs would be the max I would think for most tech and all of the products I have invested in have lasted >5yrs,… so, yeah, good educated choices are something every user needs to weigh in.
btw, the latest “Qidi Tech X-Plus 3” is also one I’d consider… https://qidi3d.com/products/qidi-x-plus-3
zxys001 Here’s a nice side by side of the new Prusa to the Bambu.
One thing that I’ve found VERY… well baffling is this fixation on “speed”. That when people say “well 3D printing takes too long!!!” and my response is always “Compared to what?” and there is always this initial strange look on their face as they start to think about the question and as they start to absorb it there is this initial denial, then sort of refusal…then, in most cases, start to come around, while others… well not so much. It’s this last population where I then say “Well here’s the thing, while it’s 3D printing you can go do something else… like sleep, work, eat… ya know other things while the machine is printing”. And this is where the lightbulb goes on in terms of acceptance. Because in the end until it is a Star Trek replicator it will NEVER be fast enough… 
We needed another printer here at work. I gave the Bambu Labs X1 serious consideration, but ended up buying the Qidi Tech. I figure for $800 it was worth the gamble.
While I’m not searching for the ability to print at fast speeds, I’ve got 2 printers that I keep running pretty much non-stop. If I can turn a 10 hour print into an 8 hour print, that effectively doubles my output, because I can clear the bedplate and start another print before leaving for the day. (Although at $800, a 2nd printer would also double my output.)
One thing that I’d throw out there is, when thinking of getting another machine, is should you get the exact same or something complimentary. So that you now have a wider range of options of making designs that work better on one platform than the other. So you now have a FFF/FDM machine vs say an SLA. Or I’d say really start taking a look at machines with a true 2nd nozzle as there is a HUGE world of difference when it comes to FFF/FDM printing when there is a secondary support material that can dissolve in water. The Ultimakers are one of my favorites in this arena as they have a large selection of materials that have all been qualified to run on the machine, still open source, and just an all around reliable machine.
The majority of the parts we produce are for production use, and they are all made out of ABS. I haven’t seen many materials in the SLA world that would benefit us. At least not at a reasonable price point.
I have a completely different view on dual nozzle printers. (At least ones that share the same gantry.) The two machines I have are from Raise3d. They are both dual nozzle printers, and they have both been regulated to single nozzle use. In my experience, it is almost impossible to get both nozzles at the correct height above the bed. If you don’t get that right, you end up with one nozzle buried in the bed, or one nozzle too high and the filament doesn’t stick. It can be done, but it takes several hours, and for me the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze. (I’m sure this is less of a problem on higher end printers. The Raise3d units we have were $3k-$4k when we purchased them.)
SPerman Definitely hear you on aiming for production quality/materiality from parts made. Yes most of the lower end SLA machines aren’t there just yet but that’s the one great thing about the 3DP/AM process is that it’s one machine and the materials are constantly upgrading and getting better.
Now I would say to the Raise3D experience… why didn’t you contact me first before buying…
This goes a little bit to what posted about earlier about buyer beware. That I’ve seen way more people/companies buy a cheap machine and get poor results and think that’s what all 3DP/Am is like. Not saying you specifically, but in terms of what you described, there can be not so great experience with an OEM’s specifically hardware and it’s in these moments that either a very strong community needs to be in place, or most importantly the OEM itself needs to have tech support staff in place to help customers whether through the challenges that can come, at times, with a machine.
I’d say most machine below $5K are much more community supported than those over $5K where there’s a big push from the OEM’s to have that support system in place.
One thing that I can say, and this is from over a decade of using Ultimakers, is that their system is completely automated of both the bed leveling as well as the dual nozzle placement. So that muss and fuss you saw with the Raise3D is not something that happens with my Ultimaker or even bigger machines from companies like Stratasys mainly because they know what they’re doing. At one architectural firm I worked with, we had…roughly 30 Ultimaker S5 all in one location and second firm with 13 spread through out
There are WAY too many companies selling machines that don’t have a clue and just copy cat rather than innovate in this “red ocean”
I realize I am working at the very bottom of the market segment. Other than the dual heads being too much work, I don’t have much bad to say about them. They’ve both had issues. Some normal wear and tear, and some things that I probably wouldn’t have to deal with in a higher end product. It sounds like the market is changing, but I won’t be surprised if the Qidi has issues. It is not much more expensive than one of my CR-10’s, and appears to be much more printer. It arrives on Friday. If it isn’t up to production standards, I will use it at home. If it is, I can buy 5 of these for one X3.
For production, look for printers with magnetic build plate.
You can swap build plate and keep printing while someone try to remove parts from the other one.
Also check out belt printers.
If you want fast printer, look for one with build plate not moving. Or only on Z-axis.
Speed is only small part of the equation.
Like all CNC, acceleration, deceleration, start, stop, feed rate affect how fast part can be made.
Radius corners, like in laser cut, helps with faster print.
[quote=zxys001 post_id=27751 time=1680993386 user_id=358]
the latest “Qidi Tech X-Plus 3” is also one I’d consider… https://qidi3d.com/products/qidi-x-plus-3
[/quote]
His review matches my experience after a few days. I haven’t had the heat creep problem, but then again I’ve only had a couple of prints that stuck to the bed, and only one of those was over a couple of hours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLzgO11wQIg
[quote=zxys001 post_id=27751 time=1680993386 user_id=358]
the latest “Qidi Tech X-Plus 3” is also one I’d consider… https://qidi3d.com/products/qidi-x-plus-3
[/quote]
His review matches my experience after a few days. I haven’t had the heat creep problem, but then again I’ve only had one print that lasted any length of time. The majority have failed due to lack of bed adhesion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLzgO11wQIg
https://q5d.com/
https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/200-billion-market-opportunity-accessed-by-q5d-cy1000-3d-printing-system-221675/
Print wire inplace.
[quote=SPerman post_id=28117 time=1682421571 user_id=169]
His review matches my experience after a few days. I haven’t had the heat creep problem, but then again I’ve only had one print that lasted any length of time. The majority have failed due to lack of bed adhesion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLzgO11wQIg
[/quote]
Sounds like they missed the mark in some areas. Hopefully the remedy’s will be coming soon. I think dialing back the speed to achieve quality would be the obvious compromise.
I’ve dialed the speeds and accelerations back to what I’m using on my Raise 3d. I can’t really comment on print quality, because no matter what I do, the ABS doesn’t stick to the bed. I’ve got a couple more things to try this evening. If I still don’t have any success I will be contacting the company to return the unit, and the Bambu X1 Carbon will be the next test subject.
Belt printer is better for production:
https://store.creality.com/ca/products/cr-30-3d-printer?spm=..collection_80d4cac7-55ae-4f55-8ccb-055fb6b071d3.albums_2.1&spm_prev=..page_2401245.header_1.1
Probably need temperature controlled enclosure for ABS.
Today’s Update:
Tech support sent me a firmware update that was supposed to help with bed adhesion. The update failed and bricked the printer. I’ve contacted support to return it.
Well, you don’t have bed adhesion problems with it anymore…
Kidding aside, working with ABS is difficult. Fred’s given some good advice above.