Most large companies in the US used to have a two forked path to “Engineering”. You had the traditional engineer that went thru college and was hired as an engineer and you had the guy that started as a truck driver and worked thru working in the shop, drafting, mechanical designing and eventually became an “Engineer”, checker or project manager.
I have the most experience with Germany but they largely do the same thing but much of the first part “Drafting” and “Working in the shop” are actually part of their university education. Pre-Pandemic we would have anywhere from 5-10 interns from Germany each year. They ranged from senior in HS just accepted to Uni to working on their doctorates thesis. Their college education FAR surpasses ours in engineering and largely because they are not only expected but it is mandatory that they spend time in shops, interning, etc etc. For the most part, at least in my experience, I’d hire a two year university student on the engineering track from Germany over a US four year graduate on the same track.
Most of the US graduates I’ve seen have a “Senior project” that is almost always something “Fun” that they get some practical experience with but it’s generally unguided and no where near enough to be useful.
The German students spend far more time with far more talented teachers, again at least in my experience.
I am a big fan of Mike Rowe Works and similar initiatives to get people involved in the trades. I talk about it with all of my friends, including the math of where they will be in 4 years ($100k in debt vs. money in the bank and a skill in demand.) They all have the same answer: “I can see the value in that for someone else’s kid, but mine is going to college.”
Great, so while your kid goes to college, wracks up 100K in debt and ends up with a “Do you want fries with that?” degree, that plumber that got paid $18 an hour to go thru a four year apprentice ship, ended up with no debt…just charged you $150 an hour to replace that broken pipe.
I have ZERO problem with college but I have a HUGE problem with cognitive dissonance. The same people that are proclaiming “My kids going to college” for no other reason than “That’s what my kids are supposed to do” are the same people who’s kids are running around playing sports all over the country because “Well this is how they will get a scholarship” because there kid is barely passing every class they are taking.
Some kids can be surgeons and some can be NFL quarter backs but most people are somewhere in between. Half, maybe more, of those people would be better off gaining some skills, going to vocational school, doing an apprenticeship etc rather than going to college. This is even more true being that a huge portion of HS students have NO IDEA what they really want to do. Go out, do some things, work in a hospital at some lower level, working in manufacturing etc etc etc and when something clicks you can always go to college.
It took my kid one day in his CNA class in HS actually working in a retirement center to realize “Yeah, that’s not what I want to do.”
It’s a society issue, I don’t even quality for my job anymore since there is a 4 year degree requirement. I’m not alone either and the company has flip/flopped several times because there were still enough older senior management to overrule it.
I worked at a medical company and a 2 year degreed drafter had worked there for 30 years and moved up to an engineer for the last 20 years. He had quit then tried to come back a few years later but new HR policy made him no longer “qualified”.
I still have a number of years until retirement and wondering if I should go get the paper. They don’t seem to care what the 4 year degree is in, just that you have it.
Confession time: I’ve never set foot on a college campus, or even a community college. I would not qualify for many positions because of this. The irony is: there are “degree’d engineers” with far less practical knowledge of general CAD, FEA, and DFM principles than I have (don’t ask how I know this). I’m not bragging or anything, just sayin’…
My experience with this, as well as working in other fields with “educated” people has convinced me that on-the-job training and/or apprenticeship is the way to go. Especially after jcapriotti’s statement that some companies don’t even care what the degree is, just that you have one! That’s silly.
I spent two years and some taking Engineering classes. At the same time I was working in a shop essentially doing mechanical design. At the point where I was correcting some of the things taught in class like “But that’s not how we do it” type of stuff I kind of decided I would be better off just continue working.
Today I regret that decision but not because of the engineering side as much as the Math, Physics and Chemistry side. I could be a better mechanical designer with being better in these areas but I mostly wish I would have gone further in those areas because I tend to do personal projects that would benefit from them
I also would never recommend anyone to plan on the route that I took today because it’s harder to even get in the door. If you want to get into Engineering you should probably go to college and get a degree as that’s a far more sure thing than being “promoted” to mechanical designer. That however does not mean that everyone should go to college. Just that some career paths need a degree and many today that we say do need a degree really don’t.
I agree, I don’t think I would recommend a drafting degree today. The college I went to doesn’t even offer it anymore although others not too far away still do. We even had a candidate apply not long ago that had a 4 year drafting degree.
My 2 year degree cost like $3000 in the early 90’s. They got me a part-time drafting job after my first year while I was finishing my second year. I was essentially debt free when I went to work full time. I remember we hired an engineer that just graduated for a drafting position and he was trying to pay off $40,000 of student debt, that was around 1999-2000. Was his debt really worth 10x mine?
If I were conspiracy minded, I might think the University lobby was involved in some way.
